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Thread: Guns pointed at your head + VT shootings.

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    Guns pointed at your head + VT shootings.

    There's a difference between a gun pointed at you and someone methodically shooting everyone in the room, it's not like homeboy took them hostage, he came in and started firing, it takes a while to precisely shoot and kill 15+ people in a room with a 9mm and a 22, if people rushed him, less than 32 people would have died, end of fucking story. If I rushed him, and got shot and killed, it would be worth it if he was disoriented enough so that maybe 2 or 3 people that were on the fence about it would get up and charge also. Now the shooter has 3 moving targets to deal with shooting dual handed. He would have been stopped.

    Fight for you life? Or cower under you desk and die?

  2. #2
    Because the first thing on everyones mind is to whisper to 3 other people to go rush the guy. Keep in mind, 3 other people that have the same ego as you...

    Life isnt a movie where things just work out the way you want them to.

    And... you don't even know the circumstances... maybe they were 5 people classrooms... maybe the majority were chicks. So unless you were there to see the situation, then you really cant say what you think it was like or what you think you wouldve done.

    Why the fuck is everything always an argument with you lately?
    Last edited by x[phelpz]; 04-23-2007 at 01:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    There's a difference between a gun pointed at you and someone methodically shooting everyone in the room, it's not like homeboy took them hostage, he came in and started firing, it takes a while to precisely shoot and kill 15+ people in a room with a 9mm and a 22, if people rushed him, less than 32 people would have died, end of fucking story. If I rushed him, and got shot and killed, it would be worth it if he was disoriented enough so that maybe 2 or 3 people that were on the fence about it would get up and charge also. Now the shooter has 3 moving targets to deal with shooting dual handed. He would have been stopped.

    Fight for you life? Or cower under you desk and die?
    My point about having a gun pointed at you is not the same and I never said it was. It was to establish some credibility to your already ridiculous suicide bum rush tactics that you so obviously would do in a heartbeat. People react differently to everything, especially to guns depending on their background. I know how I would react because it happened. My question to you was have you had a gun pointed at you because until you do, you dont know what you would do. You can claim all these ridiculous things but its only good in theory. Theres so many reasons why your argument is flawed, it would be easier to argue over whose stronger superman vs the hulk. I dont think I would have even bothered replying to you in the first place had you worded your point any other way besides making it seem like all 32 people deserved to die because they were "sheep".
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    Read the first hand student reports and get back to me. The classroom with the least people was 14.

    I'm basing my current rant on "That's the desk that I chose to die under" statment specifically.

    Are you saying chicks can't take out one guy? What does that matter?

    90 seconds while he's picking off individual students and everyone else shivers and waits for the next bullet.

    Similar to Ted Nugent's viewpoint, but you don't need a gun to be a hero sometimes.

    By Ted Nugent

    Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.

    Anybody see what theevil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.
    Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.

    A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.
    At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.

    More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.

    My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.

    She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.

    No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.

    Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.
    Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.

    Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in illegal possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun law. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.
    Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?

    I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

    Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by x[johnblaze] View Post
    My point about having a gun pointed at you is not the same and I never said it was. It was to establish some credibility to your already ridiculous suicide bum rush tactics that you so obviously would do in a heartbeat. People react differently to everything, especially to guns depending on their background. I know how I would react because it happened. My question to you was have you had a gun pointed at you because until you do, you dont know what you would do. You can claim all these ridiculous things but its only good in theory. Theres so many reasons why your argument is flawed, it would be easier to argue over whose stronger superman vs the hulk. I dont think I would have even bothered replying to you in the first place had you worded your point any other way besides making it seem like all 32 people deserved to die because they were "sheep".

    Nobody did anything and 32 people died. I'm extrapolating and idea that if people did SOMETHING besides hide under there desk, less would die.

    I don't have to experience something to have an opinion on it, I make assumptions based on how I reacted to possibly similar situations (such as being robbed at knife/gunpoint). I can form my opinions how I see fit, as most people do.

    What's flawed in my argument? You're an idiot, this isn't a very complicated or far-fetched discussion (such as superman vs. hulk)

    People on Flight 93 could have sat like sheep and cowered in their seats, then the capitol/whitehouse would have been taken out, instead they fought for their lives.

    How did you extrapolate that these people "deserved" to die from what I said? You have reading comprehension problems, severe ones. No one deserved to die except the shooter, things would have went differently if people fought back though.

    So what did you do when a gun was pointed at you? And what options were given to you?

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    You just derailed your own thread. Congratulations
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    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    Nobody did anything and 32 people died. I'm extrapolating and idea that if people did SOMETHING besides hide under there desk, less would die.

    I don't have to experience something to have an opinion on it, I make assumptions based on how I reacted to possibly similar situations (such as being robbed at knife/gunpoint). I can form my opinions how I see fit, as most people do.
    A pointless hypothetical argument. And yes Im calling you out on your I would totally rush that guy down machismo bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post

    What's flawed in my argument? You're an idiot, this isn't a very complicated or far-fetched discussion (such as superman vs. hulk)
    You make it seem so easy that only a few people needed to rush the gunman and all would be avoided. There are a too numerous variables that would ultimately determine if that were true, yet you spout "end of fucking story" like its that fucking simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    People on Flight 93 could have sat like sheep and cowered in their seats, then the capitol/whitehouse would have been taken out, instead they fought for their lives.
    The 2 situations are completely different. I dont see why you keep bringing it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    How did you extrapolate that these people "deserved" to die from what I said? You have reading comprehension problems, severe ones. No one deserved to die except the shooter, things would have went differently if people fought back though.

    "CCW, whatever, if people weren't fucking SHEEP waiting to be slaughtered people would have lived, what happened to the spirit of Flight 93, if someone comes in blasting, it's TIME for fucking heroes."
    Pretty sure that right there is saying they deserved to die because they did nothing or was the "sheep waiting to be slaughtered" meant differently?

    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    So what did you do when a gun was pointed at you? And what options were given to you?
    My point was not to go into detail about my past, only to respond to some dude telling me how I would react if there was a gunman in my presence.
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    You're a coward and an idiot.

    end of fucking story.

    I derailed this thread how? It's about guns being shot at you and the VT response and maybe how lives could have been saved if there was some heroism.

    You can't comprehend shit.

    You can't even see similarities between similar issue. (whether you're dying in a plane or you're dying in a classroom, you can either do something about it "flight 93" or do nothing about it "VT shooting")

    The "sheep waiting to be slaughtered" is about people's fear in general, maybe I should have specified that they died LIKE sheep waiting for slaughter, no where does it infer that they "deserved" to die.

    So how would you react if someone came into your classroom and started taking his time and getting killshots on your fellow classmates? Fight and die or cower under your desk and die?

    The point of someone "pointing a gun at you" isn't even relevant in this situation (and you're the one that brought it up to begin with in the other thread)

    Most times when people will "point a gun at you", it's to rob you. At that point they give you options "Give me your wallet or I'll kill you" for example. Otherwise it's in TOTAL suprise and you don't even see it coming.

    You are missing the complete point by the fact that the shooter was in the classroom for 90 seconds taking his time to fire and reload pistols in each hand while people did nothing but hide/die. (except the proffessor that gave his life blocking the door with a table so his students could escape through a window)

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    Quote Originally Posted by x[phelpz] View Post
    Why the fuck is everything always an argument with you lately?
    Actually, this is the 2nd time I agree with mr.bitch.

    If I know I'm gonna die, by watching him shoot at the people next to me without hesitation or remorse, I'm gonna rush him. Get in close, bite, scratch, spit, elbow, headbutt, do whatever to put him on the ground. If the people next to me have any common sense, they'll help. If they are too cowardly to help, they deserve to die.
    Trust me. I know what I am doing.

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    http://www.slate.com/id/2164660?nav=tap3

    Fight or Flight at Virginia Tech
    What should you do when confronted with a gun-wielding madman?
    By Michelle Tsai (LOOK IT'S ONE OF THOSE "WOMEN")
    Posted Friday, April 20, 2007, at 6:28 PM ET

    Eyewitnesses at Monday's Virginia Tech massacre described a chaotic scene in which some professors fought back against Cho Seung-Hui, a group of students blocked off their classroom door, and many others sought safety under their desks. What should you do when confronted with a gunman?

    Fight or flee, depending on the situation. Running away should be your first plan, when possible. At 20 feet from the gunman, you're still within a deadly range, but at 40 feet, you're a difficult shot. If he starts to shoot as you're making your escape, try to run in a zigzag or another unpredictable pattern. To escape through an upper-floor window, find a drain pipe or a ledge that can slow your descent or let you slide down part of the way. You'll likely hurt your ankles when you land, so be prepared to break the fall with a quick roll. Protect your body by rolling over one shoulder, diagonally across the back and onto the opposite hip.

    If there's no way out, then assess the situation. Most robberies, for instance, end without violence, so it may make sense to cooperate with the gunman. If you're confronted with a determined psychopath, fighting would be a better option.

    If the killer opens fire, you'll want to take cover behind heavy furniture. Hiding is only a temporary strategy, though, since a gunman like Cho may plan to kill everybody in a room. At least two of the students at Virginia Tech survived by playing dead, but if they had more time on their side, they and others could have gone on the offensive.

    To disarm a gunman, you'll need to take his focus off his weapon and his plan of attack. To do this, you might throw chairs, laptops, or fire extinguishers at him, or set off the sprinkler system or fire alarm. Then, you'd want to pick up a desk or some other shield and charge right at the killer. There's a chance you'll be killed in the process, but if two or three people rush at once, there's also a chance that somebody will take him down. (Unarmed civilians who band together have a much better chance of surviving an attack.)

    If you're already within a step or two of the gunman, you might be able to grab his weapon. If he's facing you, quickly reach up and take hold of the barrel, and then aim it away from your body. The move should be as clean and economical as possible. The gunman will reflexively pull the gun back away from you. Go with him: Keep gripping the gun and push your weight forward. Then, punch him in the face or the throat as hard as you can. Hit him on the nose, jab your fingers into his eyes, or strike him with the heel of your open palm. Then use your free hand to grab the nonbusiness end of the gun. With two hands on the gun, you can knee the killer in the groin or head-butt him. A better idea might be to twist your hands like they are revving a motorcycle engine. The weapon will pivot and break the gunman's finger inside the trigger guard.

    Of course, this wouldn't have worked at Virginia Tech, since Cho had one gun in each hand. In that case, your best option would be to grab both weapons and hold the gunman off with kicks until another person can help disarm him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    You're a coward and an idiot.

    end of fucking story.
    End of fucking story. LOL. Name calling and insulting doesnt make your point any more valid. Im a coward why? Because Im calling you out on your I would have done things differently if I were there bullshit? And let me get this straight, everyone of those people who died are cowards because they got caught up in a moment of terror and didnt do what YOU would do?

    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    I derailed this thread how? It's about guns being shot at you and the VT response and maybe how lives could have been saved if there was some heroism.
    Quoting Ted Nugent and turning your thread into a gun reform thread. GG.

    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    You can't comprehend shit.

    You can't even see similarities between similar issue. (whether you're dying in a plane or you're dying in a classroom, you can either do something about it "flight 93" or do nothing about it "VT shooting")
    Sorry but I disagree. Flight 93 they had time to think and act. They knew other planes had been hijacked and had been used as missiles to attack other targets from loved ones. They had a pretty good idea they were going to die, hence the necessity of taking action first. Someone coming in class in the middle of the day opening fire and you expect someone to react the same way in a split second. Do you immediately think hes going to kill everyone? You dont know. Is he there killing people he knows or indiscriminantly? You dont know. Is he going to leave to another classroom? You dont know. Hindsight is always 20/20 and you want to use it to say if YOU were in the EXACT same situation under the EXACT same circumstances you would do something different. Because what, most people when they hear gunfire their first instinct is to talk to the person next to them, who might be a total and complete stranger, and say hey if we rush him we might get killed but we might stop him from killing others? Bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    The "sheep waiting to be slaughtered" is about people's fear in general, maybe I should have specified that they died LIKE sheep waiting for slaughter, no where does it infer that they "deserved" to die.

    So how would you react if someone came into your classroom and started taking his time and getting killshots on your fellow classmates? Fight and die or cower under your desk and die?)
    If I took your elitist point of view of fear the wrong way I guess thats my bad. Im glad its so easy for you to talk about other peoples fear and the shit they go through because you read it on the internet. Because its so obvious you would do things differently. You present those two choices like everyone knew that they had them in the first place. Do you know if hes going to go around and kill everyone or just some? Is he targeting specific people? Is he killing different sexes, races? You make all these assumptions that people ultimately have a choice between the 2, and staying under cover with the possibility of survival not one of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by x[mr.bitch] View Post
    The point of someone "pointing a gun at you" isn't even relevant in this situation (and you're the one that brought it up to begin with in the other thread)

    Most times when people will "point a gun at you", it's to rob you. At that point they give you options "Give me your wallet or I'll kill you" for example. Otherwise it's in TOTAL suprise and you don't even see it coming.

    You are missing the complete point by the fact that the shooter was in the classroom for 90 seconds taking his time to fire and reload pistols in each hand while people did nothing but hide/die. (except the proffessor that gave his life blocking the door with a table so his students could escape through a window)
    When someone pulls out their E-penis and starts blabbing about how people should do this and do that in specific circumstances I was trying to determine your credibility in relationship to guns. I said from the get go unless you are ex military, police, or go shooting every weekend, you cant tell me how you would react to guns in your face. You then told me I would die under my desk. I said I had a gun pointed at me and I know what I would do because I did it. Did you? You dont seem to understand that you cannot argue this point unless you are there, when it happens. Have some respect, give it up.
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    You two should hang out IRL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by x[phelpz] View Post
    You two should hang out IRL.
    Maybe some wine, dinner, and a room?
    Trust me. I know what I am doing.

    -- Sledge Hammer

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    Who the hell is Michelle Tsai LOL. You want to start grabbing random articles about what some writer thinks you should do?

    LMAO read the responses at the bottom of that article.

    "Remarks from the Fray:

    Any gunman has a couple of automatic advantages on unarmed bystanders; one, he has a gun, and two, the bystanders don't know how many extra rounds he may have, nor how quickly he is capable of reloading. This being the case, the idea of ADVISING people to play hero, even in groups, is foolish at best. The best idea is to get low and hide, and if possible call the police. It may sound cowardly, but Superman is just a comic book.

    --WolfWithHonor

    Three important other safety tips - running is good if you can start far enough away, but if it isn't an option these might get you to where you could run:

    1) If you know the gunman, start talking to him using his name. Repeat the name often and include your name in the conversation. The act of connecting your name with his personalizes you and reduces the gunman's ability to dehumanize you which is necessary for him to shoot you .

    2) Stand sideways - every fencer will tell you, a sideways profile reduces your target area. In particular you want to turn your right side towards the gunman since the heart is closer to your left side

    3) Retreat slowly while maintaining eye contact and a sideways stance until you are 30' away"

    Defeat your own purpose there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by x[con] View Post
    Maybe some wine, dinner, and a room?
    Im definintely the pitcher.
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    "i want you to take the frankenstein, the bling, AND the bling bling, and roll it up into a joint"




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    stupid fucking thread



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    ^^
    it's in rants for a reason. Don't like it. Get the fuck out

    It amazes me in a building that size was there really no fire alarm? No sprinkler system? No one cut the power? Just odd. Some did "fight back" by holding the doors shut with whatever they could. No one had a gun at their head though so I'm not sure what that's about.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by x[con] View Post
    Actually, this is the 2nd time I agree with mr.bitch.

    If I know I'm gonna die, by watching him shoot at the people next to me without hesitation or remorse, I'm gonna rush him. Get in close, bite, scratch, spit, elbow, headbutt, do whatever to put him on the ground. If the people next to me have any common sense, they'll help. If they are too cowardly to help, they deserve to die.
    I think the problem is people need to go into these situations with the mindset that they will react. Be prepared and be ready to react at a moments notice. I'm not saying live your life jumping at every shadow and generally living in fear. Just always have it in the back of your mind that you will do something and not just sit there.

    I'm quoting Con cause I'm in agreement with him I'm not going to sit there if I can help it and die like a sheep. Desks can be weapons, hell textbooks could be weapons.

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    I'm calling you a coward because it's apparent from your argument stance that you would do nothing but hide and wait and hope he didn't shoot you.

    This has nothing to do with E-penis, but we've already gathered your inability to comprehend shit.

    My statement is if people did "something" throw a chair, throw a laptop or books to distract the shooter so people could make a move, LESS than 32 people would have died. THAT is the END of the story, NOT a fucking DOUBT in my mind.

    Ted Nugent didn't derail the thread, I even started off with a "Similar to Ted Nugent's viewpoint" his viewpoint being that people should fight back in a hide and die/fight and die situation. I just decided to post his entire viewpoint instead of mincing it up.

    Flight 93 yeah, they had more time, but the answer was the same. Ninety seconds is a LONG time as well.

    Your next diatribe goes on about how I'm "elitist" why? Because I think life is worth fighting for? I guess I'm elite as fuck that I think I might have to fight for my survival someday. I wasn't in the situation, but dude walked in the door, stopped and started killing. You talk about what people might be thinking and that "fighting" might be too much of a thought, then you're telling me people are thinking if he's targetting races/sex/individuals? Bullshit, people are thinking Flight (hide/run running being difficult because the shooter is at the classroom's only door) or FIGHT or Reasoning with him (That's out too because he came in firing)

    Then you go saying "guns in your face" He wasn't walking right up to people (that would be even worse for the dead if he was just able to walk up pointblank and shoot them)

    1) If you know the gunman, start talking to him using his name. Repeat the name often and include your name in the conversation. The act of connecting your name with his personalizes you and reduces the gunman's ability to dehumanize you which is necessary for him to shoot you .
    There was no question in Cho's mind when he walked in shooting, he wasn't being talked down, he wasn't second guessing killing indiscriminately.

    2) Stand sideways - every fencer will tell you, a sideways profile reduces your target area. In particular you want to turn your right side towards the gunman since the heart is closer to your left side
    Completely irrelevant, given the distance and the volume of people in the class, so you're standing sideways while the guy next to you gets shot? Again, Cho didn't hesitate.

    3) Retreat slowly while maintaining eye contact and a sideways stance until you are 30' away"
    Same as point 2

    Who's Michelle Tsai? Someone who has a goddamn great point.

    Next point, he has two guns, unless he's the main star of John Woo's next film, he's going to be clumsy aiming and reloading.

    When I had either a gun or knife (not sure his hands were under his jacket's pockets, and there were two of them, one in front and one to the right) point fucking blank, did I know what to do? Fuck no I didn't, I had to come up with something on the spot.

    You can't even answer the goddamn question about what you DID, what did you do btw, this is my third time asking I think.

    Lastly, you're saying I can't argue a point because I wasn't there? Well shit, I guess you can't have an opinion about WWII, Jesus, the origins of the universe, or anything else you weren't "there" for. Shut the fuck up with your empiricist nonsense that points/opinions can't be made unless you see/hear/taste/touch/smell something.

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